Video Interview with Kale Zelden. Topic: The Numbing Down of the Church.

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Last week I had the wonderful experience of being interviewed by podcaster Kale Zelden. Our conversation was focused on my latest blog series on the numbing down of the Church, but it free ranged over a variety of topics. Click the link below to watch the interview. Thanks!


  1. Hi, Dr. Chapp,

    I’m working my way through your blogs and I earlier shared with you some comments by Professor Thomas Pink (on Vatican 2 and more particularly on Official Theology”. I still still find Prof Pink’s work convincing and compelling.

    But, on another matter, I note that one of the aims of Vatican 2 was to “speak to” the modern world, evangelise it and shine Christ’s light upon it.

    What puzzles me is that in the entirety of the Constitutions, Decrees and Declarations, not much seems to have been said to or about communism and socialism. If this was deliberate, is there some reason for this strange silence or evasion? If, however, it was an oversight, then I confess to being gob-smacked (a good Australian descriptor).

    I liked your interview on “the numbing down” with Kale Zeldon and I’m looking forward to listening to your comments in the interview with Zac Crippen.

    Yours sincerely in Christ,
    Francis Ribeiro (from Brisbane, Australia)


    1. Nothing was said about those issues and it probably should have been said. However, it must be remembered that for better of for worse the Church was trying at that time to protect those Catholics, as in Poland, who were suffering under the communist yoke. The Vatican had to tread lightly here I think. Just my two cents. Thanks for the comment!


  2. I had no intention of watching the entire interview but once I started I couldn’t stop. Cheers for providing a such a shining light in this time of uncertainty.


  3. Very interesting interview and also very interesting to hear your own experiences in seminary. I imagine you are familiar with Michael Rose’s book ‘Goodbye, Good Men’ (sounds like you may have been one of the people interviewed in that book – maybe you were? I read it sometime ago and have a bad memory for names). I imagine you are also familiar with the claim that communist convert Bella Dodd mentioned to people (albeit she never put it in writing!) that at some point during the 30s or 40s she had been part of a plan orchestrated by the Soviet Union through the US Communist Party to recruit agents, principally homosexual men, and introduce them in seminaries to become priests and destroy the Catholic Church from within. I wonder what your take is on that?

    On the silence of Vatican 2 on Communism, I think I read somewhere that it was the price extracted so that bishops from the Soviet block, as well as some Orthodox representatives, were allowed to attend. I don’t know whether this is true and I doubt it is the whole picture in any case.


    1. I knew I had seen a clip about this Bella Dodd story somewhere on Youtube:

      It’s Alice von Hildebrand (widow of Dietrich) talking to your least-favourite American Catholic media personality.


  4. Since I typed Bella Dodd’s name in YouTube to find the previous video, its algorithm has been kind enough to select this for me, an audio recording of one of her talks in 1961. Well worth listening to in its entirety, and very pertinent to some of the concerns discussed in this blog:


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